Team headstrong will enter 2014 under 2 new teams, Greenville Velo (out of Greenville, SC) and Maddog83 (out of Tucson, Az).. It has been a great 4 years of racing, companionship, and community. We have accomplished some great things, but like all things, time moves on and so will we. See below for more details......
Thursday, December 15, 2011
Decoupling Graph
per DS's lesson below...my steady state wind trainer workout...this is using speed/cadence/HR as my parameters.... WKO+ (warm up .. get HR up then hold pace.. the spike is standing up ... or I will go crazy)
Q: there has been some mention about doing testing on the computrainers, but can you do the power testing on regular trainer if you have some type of power meter (eg. a Power Tap)? And if you do, will the test be the same as if done on a road? I mean, since it's Power being measured, it should be the same, right?
I find that when I'm on the trainer and my heart rate goes up above 15oish, I feel like it's really hard...like, REALLY hard. But the same HR on the road is a conversational pace. It is my understanding that this is a common phenomenon. Do people experience the same thing with power on a trainer? I mean, does holding, say, 200 Watts on the trainer steadily "feel" harder than holding 200 Watts on the road? Should the HR correlate, all other things being equal?
Yes...riding a trainer has a higher RPE than on the road.... mental? well the reason is that so much more blood is going to cooling you down than to the muscle...or so I am told...
Try a BIG fan in front of you... seems to help me.... also doing ramp-ups at the beginning of the session.... 30sec all out 1:30 recovery... x5 to raise your heart...
I, for one, detest wind-trainers. It has to be snowing out, or icy road conditions, for me to ride indoors during the day; if I can't train until after dark, then the indoor trainers become a necessary evil. I think this comes from riding them for 2-3 hours at a stretch back in the early 80's, when my work schedule dictated that I ride them on most weekdays during the winter. As G points out, the workload has always seemed harder to me than a comparable "outdoor" workload, regardless of whether you measure HR or power. A big fan does seem to help. Short repeated efforts of less than a min duration with plenty of recovery, or repeated bouts of pedaling "skill drills" (spin-ups, one legged pedaling, or sustained pedaling at >110rpms) are another option for me. I avoid any long intervals at z3 or higher workloads indoors, or workouts longer than 1 hour. In fact, I pretty much forget about workload indoors and focus on pedaling skills. The 3 drills I mentioned earlier work well with a wind-trainer, but I much prefer riding my rollers indoors at this time of year. An old school, 1 hr workout on the rollers builds a very efficient spin.
Another note on power and RPE. Come spring time, if you are just starting to monitor your power output, you will notice a difference in RPE at a given power between climbing and riding a TT style effort on the flats, with climbing having a lower RPE for a given power output. This is similar to the difference in RPE between a given workload on the wind-trainer vs the same workload outdoors on a flat road. I have heard coaches describe climbing as a "sweet pain" and a flat TT as a "sour pain". Thoughts?
I do my power tests on a road with a gradual climb (the watershed), because it seems so hard to maintain the same power output on flat terrain. Even when I get to the flat section of the climb at the Saluda turn, I am working my ass off to maintain the same wattage as the uphill section.
Interesting points Perry. I agree that there is a difference between climbing efforts and TT efforts at the same power levels. There are some other factors that come into play with these "styles" of riding. For one, you recruit slightly different muscles (or tax the same ones in slightly different ways) when you climb vs. a TT. You don't sit on the bike the exact same way when you climb a hill. You engage your glutes and hamstrings differently on a climb vs. a TT. This can account for some of the difference in RPE. It is not just a perceived difference.
If you do indoor workouts this winter (and we all do some of them) I second Perry's plan of limiting the amount of time on the trainer. I also like about 1 hour. If you focus and do some specific work, you can get a great workout in 1 hour. It is possible to do a longer workout on the trainer, but you really have to be dedicated and focused. It is very mentally challenging.
Also, turn the fan on high when you're on the trainer. I read a study of Olympic athletes years ago regarding heart rates and cooling fans. The athletes with the fans blowing on them were able to work out at higher levels than the ones with no fan. Higher work levels means they were getting more fit. Cool your body during efforts and you can work harder, get stronger and go faster.
I have never trained with power before, and have done indoor workouts in the past using HR. I've been spending some time doing specific workouts on a computrainer at The Edge, and I find I'm working MUCH harder than I was using HR, and because the program is dictating the "terrain", I'm not as bored or mentally challenged as I was spending time on an ordinary trainer. I unfortunately do not like getting cold, and the trade-off is hard (mentally and physically) trainer workouts. Thanks goodness for something other than HR to focus on during this winter training season.
one issue to be aware of is that you can actually go too hard on trainers (back to back snow days)... try watching the Paris Roubaix (long DVD) and sprint on every pave.....
I will post some trainer workouts and would like to ask everyone to post their favorite.... next 60 days for me will see alot of time on the rollers/trainer....
7 comments:
Q: there has been some mention about doing testing on the computrainers, but can you do the power testing on regular trainer if you have some type of power meter (eg. a Power Tap)? And if you do, will the test be the same as if done on a road? I mean, since it's Power being measured, it should be the same, right?
I find that when I'm on the trainer and my heart rate goes up above 15oish, I feel like it's really hard...like, REALLY hard. But the same HR on the road is a conversational pace. It is my understanding that this is a common phenomenon. Do people experience the same thing with power on a trainer? I mean, does holding, say, 200 Watts on the trainer steadily "feel" harder than holding 200 Watts on the road? Should the HR correlate, all other things being equal?
Yes...riding a trainer has a higher RPE than on the road.... mental? well the reason is that so much more blood is going to cooling you down than to the muscle...or so I am told...
Try a BIG fan in front of you... seems to help me.... also doing ramp-ups at the beginning of the session.... 30sec all out 1:30 recovery... x5 to raise your heart...
I, for one, detest wind-trainers. It has to be snowing out, or icy road conditions, for me to ride indoors during the day; if I can't train until after dark, then the indoor trainers become a necessary evil. I think this comes from riding them for 2-3 hours at a stretch back in the early 80's, when my work schedule dictated that I ride them on most weekdays during the winter. As G points out, the workload has always seemed harder to me than a comparable "outdoor" workload, regardless of whether you measure HR or power. A big fan does seem to help. Short repeated efforts of less than a min duration with plenty of recovery, or repeated bouts of pedaling "skill drills" (spin-ups, one legged pedaling, or sustained pedaling at >110rpms) are another option for me. I avoid any long intervals at z3 or higher workloads indoors, or workouts longer than 1 hour. In fact, I pretty much forget about workload indoors and focus on pedaling skills. The 3 drills I mentioned earlier work well with a wind-trainer, but I much prefer riding my rollers indoors at this time of year. An old school, 1 hr workout on the rollers builds a very efficient spin.
Another note on power and RPE. Come spring time, if you are just starting to monitor your power output, you will notice a difference in RPE at a given power between climbing and riding a TT style effort on the flats, with climbing having a lower RPE for a given power output. This is similar to the difference in RPE between a given workload on the wind-trainer vs the same workload outdoors on a flat road. I have heard coaches describe climbing as a "sweet pain" and a flat TT as a "sour pain". Thoughts?
I do my power tests on a road with a gradual climb (the watershed), because it seems so hard to maintain the same power output on flat terrain. Even when I get to the flat section of the climb at the Saluda turn, I am working my ass off to maintain the same wattage as the uphill section.
Interesting points Perry. I agree that there is a difference between climbing efforts and TT efforts at the same power levels. There are some other factors that come into play with these "styles" of riding. For one, you recruit slightly different muscles (or tax the same ones in slightly different ways) when you climb vs. a TT. You don't sit on the bike the exact same way when you climb a hill. You engage your glutes and hamstrings differently on a climb vs. a TT. This can account for some of the difference in RPE. It is not just a perceived difference.
If you do indoor workouts this winter (and we all do some of them) I second Perry's plan of limiting the amount of time on the trainer. I also like about 1 hour. If you focus and do some specific work, you can get a great workout in 1 hour. It is possible to do a longer workout on the trainer, but you really have to be dedicated and focused. It is very mentally challenging.
Also, turn the fan on high when you're on the trainer. I read a study of Olympic athletes years ago regarding heart rates and cooling fans. The athletes with the fans blowing on them were able to work out at higher levels than the ones with no fan. Higher work levels means they were getting more fit. Cool your body during efforts and you can work harder, get stronger and go faster.
I have never trained with power before, and have done indoor workouts in the past using HR. I've been spending some time doing specific workouts on a computrainer at The Edge, and I find I'm working MUCH harder than I was using HR, and because the program is dictating the "terrain", I'm not as bored or mentally challenged as I was spending time on an ordinary trainer. I unfortunately do not like getting cold, and the trade-off is hard (mentally and physically) trainer workouts. Thanks goodness for something other than HR to focus on during this winter training season.
one issue to be aware of is that you can actually go too hard on trainers (back to back snow days)... try watching the Paris Roubaix (long DVD) and sprint on every pave.....
I will post some trainer workouts and would like to ask everyone to post their favorite.... next 60 days for me will see alot of time on the rollers/trainer....
Post a Comment